This topic contains 5 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Bob 1 week ago.

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  • #18268
     Koen 
    Moderator
    @khurtekant
    Topics: 21
    Replies: 14

    Hello to all who’s reading this,

    Today a customer (wholesale cutflower client) of mine showed me a peony I had never seen before. He bought it a few days ago in a distribution centre and it came from the South of France. It was labeled “Coral Yellow Cream” and this is what it looked like then:

    546765658

    I had never heard of this cultivar and it’s not registered with the American Peony Society (APS). But some peony varieties are never registered with the APS (several Chinese ones of course, and it seems to be a trend for several growers here to introduce new varieties without registering them properly with the APS) or are simply renamed (several Chinese ones) to sell them better. From the image above I thought it might be Coral Supreme, which I grow, but have never propagated as I think in pink there are better cultivars (Coral Supreme is difficult to grow straight up, some wind will blow it sideways, after which the stem is curved).

    Today he thus brought me two stems of this Coral Yellow Cream and it was obvious that this wasn’t Coral Supreme. Clearly it is related to Coral Charm or Coral Supreme. The foliage is the same, the sturdiness of the stem is the same, bud size and flower form identical and also a curved stem, thus typical of those varieties. I’d say it more resembles Coral Charm than Coral Supreme as Coral Charm is the one with the larger buds here. It surely doesn’t resemble Coral Sunset if you might consider it, I grow enough of both to see the difference.

    But the colour is different from Coral Charm. And, different opinions notwithstanding, I think it’s even prettier than Coral Charm. It’s more salmon in bud and it remains that colour more or less when open. Which is unlike Coral Charm changing from that reddish pink in bud into salmon orange to end up pale yellow before the petals fall. I’ve take some pictures of it and put some Coral Charm next to it for comparison. The open colour is more or less the same as the bud, it might pale a little and it looks a bit like a flower of Cytherea with the colour faded just before petal drop. At the edge of the petals there’s a little bit of pink. It’s very, very attractive to my eyes. Another difference is that it has no fragrance to speak of (which is a good think when you compare it to the unpleasant odour of Coral Charm).

    I would think this is a mutation from Coral Charm, someone must have spotted it and propagated it. There were only 40 stems of it available in the distribution centre, nobody knew from which grower it came and it was no longer available since then. It was dazzlingly expensive (nothing came close, it was four times the price of the most expensive Coral Charm and at this time peonies aren’t cheap). I wonder whether anyone would have some information about this peony? I must say I’d like to grow it myself.

    IMG_0357
    This is Coral Yellow Cream

    IMG_0351
    On the left some flowers and buds of Coral Charm to compare the colour.
    IMG_0352
    A close-up of a Coral Charm bud and an opening Coral Yellow Cream

    IMG_0356
    Close-up of open Coral Yellow Cream

    IMG_0355
    The bended stem of Coral Yellow Cream

    IMG_0354
    Open flower of Coral Yellow Cream

  • #18370
     Bob 
    Participant
    @bobjohnson
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 17

    It’s certainly nothing that I’ve heard about, here in the US.

    As you mentioned, now that more new things seem to be coming onto the market, the idea that growers don’t seem to see registration as important is unsettling.  The American Peony Society was originally founded as a response to the confusion and chaos that was surrounding the naming and misnaming of peonies that was happening at the time.   It would be sad to think that we are entering a new era of that very same thing.

  • #18436
     Koen 
    Moderator
    @khurtekant
    Topics: 21
    Replies: 14

    I’d agree that would be a sad thing, but I can see it happening right now unfortunately. Currently many growers here are planting ‘White Sarah Bernhardt’ and ‘Red Sarah Bernhardt’, both have nothing to do with Sarah Bernhardt, except for the name. They are merely Chinese lactiflora cultivars which have been renamed to sell them easier. Of course it’s difficult to sell them under their original Chinese names, but it would be nice if they had been registered as synonyms with the American Peony Society (APS). Newer introductions that may be renamed ones or not also include: Athens, Dublin, Kiev, London… (see the site of Green Works), these seem to have been trademarked. At the flower auction, the same thing happens, several cultivars appearing that have never been properly registered.

    Of course nearly all Chinese or Japanese cultivars have never been registered as well, I even wonder whether the ‘registered’ cultivars are only a minority of all peony cultivars. The APS is trying and I think the registrar does his very best, but I guess the registration price should be zero (for those amateur hybridizers in Asia that only earn a few dollars a day, any price is simply too high), online registration would be nice (a page where you fill out some fields, add a picture and simply ‘submit’ it, after which the cultivar is online) and some contact persons in other countries would be welcome as well (especially in Europe and Asia). The number of registrations at the APS is rising (they can fill half of the APS bulletin lately) and that’s a good thing, but I think there’s room for improvement still.

  • #20305
     Luriel 
    Participant
    @goldenqueen
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 3

    My first thought is that it could very well be – Micro propagation !!

    – If Coral Charm.. has been under the program where you can propagate by micro propagation
    we growers are seeing that –  when you propagate this way. other genes can be active.. and other.. as here colors
    Also as you mention.. the operater could be interested in removing the odor, as it is not nice as Coral Charm.. or Coral Sunset either

    It is often used, as if you have the money to do it.. you can very easy make 1000 of clones, quikly..So doing such a sell.. could be a try out. to se if customers would buy it…

    As we all knows.. Chine growers sow seeds of the peonies and sell the ones looking alike as the named peony.. they do it with their P.suffruticosa.. and P.rockii

    But you and i knows that the most of this Corals.. do not set seeds.. But micro propagation is possible.

    • #20434
       Bob 
      Participant
      @bobjohnson
      Topics: 2
      Replies: 17

      Luriel,

      I doubt that it’s micropropagation, if it has anything to do with the Corals !  They corals are  the very easiest peonies to propagate quickly, because of their adventitious nature, and would be the last peonies that one would want to use micropropagation on !

      Having said that, while intersectionals have been successfully micropropigated (although there have been some problems with them as I understand) using tissue culture with herbaceous hybrids *has* been done too.   I know of a situation where people grew thousands of several expensive varieties from tissue culture many years ago now.  Apparently it’s expensive, because each individual variety needs their own special growth medium, and the expense of figuring that out for each one is significant.  Once these plantlets were grown on, and then planted out in the field, apparently the plants were “lazy” and wanted to remain “youthful” for much longer than small plants grown from small divisions would normally take.  So while tissue culture with intersectionals may be profitable, apparently tissue culture with herbaceous hybrids has not worked out to be a profitable thing.  At least not so far, as I understand.

       

       

       

  • #20306
     Luriel 
    Participant
    @goldenqueen
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 3

    The question about easier ways of Registering
    Is NO..
    – beside the registering of a cultivar, there is also many years of growing the new cultivar and growing it under different lokations, it has to be different to what is already made.. and more things.. that an registrar has to examine
    But..We are in a time where things are changing.. and we can not control what will come into the marked, even we knows it is the best thing – In our way of living

    Chine s and other countries have other ways of doing things.. But exspecialy the customers

    Beeing on this marked in nearly 20 years have learned me.. Customers give a damm in.. registering or who is having the control.. they want cheep..peonies

    And the chinese and maybe also some of the new countries that has a cheaper growing condition and worker paying.. could choose.. Their way

    They could very easy. .take over the whole marked

    Unless We learn to cooperate.. and not fight each other
    To me this is the way we should chooose

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